Hey Steemit Whales, How'd You Like To Fix All Of Steemit's Problems And Make Bank By Doing Absolutely Nothing?

in #steemit6 years ago

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I got into an argument with someone the other day about the whole @haejin issue and came up with a brilliant idea to solve all of Steemit's problems simultaneously.

The problems

  1. Minnows don't make any money from their posts
  2. Minnows get no exposure for their posts
  3. There is no incentive for high SP accounts not to rape the reward pool
  4. Steemit is flooded with unedited, low quality content
  5. New users leave quickly once they realize that paid upvotes are the only way to reliably make money and get exposure

These are all problems that everyone has acknowledged.

Until now, nobody has come up with any intelligent solutions. I've taken a look at the situation and figured out how to fix all of these issues at once.

The solution(s)

  1. A new account is created whose purpose is specifically to pay minnows in SBD for contributing content
  2. Agreements are reached with high SP accounts to upvote every single post on the account (similar to the @haejin - @ranchorelaxo arrangement)
  3. Rewards are split between the writer, the whale and the posting account

Sounds simple enough, doesn't it?

It should be obvious how this solves a lot of problems, but just for fun I'll explain it to you anyway.

No money, no hunny

As it stands right now, new accounts make virtually no money on their posts. The odd post here and there that gets a @curie upvote or something similar is not a reliable source of income for anyone. Professional writers are not going to spend any time here if the results are not consistent.

Even if a team of 100 curators had enough time and mental energy to sift through all the posts on this platform, a $54 upvote once a month is not going to do anything for anyone. What we need here is a consistent, reliable solution where content creators know that they are going to make a certain amount of money on every post.

For a 300 word article, for example, a native English-speaking writer should generally shoot for a minimum of $25 USD. If you're doing a bulk order you can lower the price a bit, but that's fairly standard (some would even say low) for a freelance writer.

As it stands now, writers on Steemit are making an embarrassingly-low amount per post.

If, however, high SP accounts agreed to fund an account with their own upvotes, then the SBD/SP generated from these upvotes could be used to pay authors directly for their contributions.

Authors would know going in that they would receive the equivalent of $25 USD (for example) per approved post. Why is this good? Because all of a sudden they'd know that they'd be guaranteed a payment for every article they write - just like in the real world.

Problem #1, solved.

No exposure, no money

As if it wasn't bad enough that minnows didn't make any money from their posts, possibly even more insulting is the fact that their posts are quickly buried under a mountain of content from other users.

One way to circumvent this is with paid resteems. I am a fan of these services and have written about them in the past.

However, the best way to guarantee that people read your content is by having a large following on your account. If you have 20k followers on your blog, then you have a much higher chance of your work being seen than if you only have 200.

With this new program, minnows would be able to work together to get exposure both for their own posts as well as for each others. In other words, if you have 10 accounts that submit one article each, and all of these accounts promote each other's posts (as well as the main account's), then you are reaching 10 audiences instead of 1.

This is commonly used for Instagram marketing and known as an engagement group. Everyone joins a group and likes each other's posts. So instead of only your own followers seeing pictures of your breakfast, lots of other people get to see it as well.

Minnow accounts would be able to grow at a much faster rate because the amount of "seeds" on Steemit with links to their content would be multiplied significantly. Not only would they plant a seed on each of the participating users' accounts, but they'd also receive a link on the main account.

If you look at the bottom of my posts, I put a "signature" with links to my previous posts. A rotating signature would be created at the bottom of the new account as well that promotes the 10 recent posts. That's essentially 10 different resteems from an account that posts high quality content, hires writers from Steemit, AND has a cooperative-marketing requirement built in to its submission policy.

Problem #2, solved.

If your paycheck depends on not understanding something, you won't understand it

One of the risks of the Steemit system is that certain high SP accounts will upvote all of their own posts and use the platform as a money-printing machine.

From what I've seen, people have tried to stop this by publicly shaming offending accounts.

While I'm willing to give these extremely vocal individuals the benefit of the doubt and assume that their crusade comes from honorable intentions, the bottom line is that it's an ineffective strategy that has proven to be unsuccessful.

Not only that, it is a turn-off to new users of the platform to see so much vitriol tactlessly spread to high-visibility areas of the site.

The real issue is that high SP accounts have no incentive to stop upvoting their own posts. A little animosity from some anonymous internet personalities is not powerful enough motivation to turn off your money-printing machine.

Until there is a reason for them to use their SP for something else, they won't stop. That's just basic economics.

That said, creating 10 posts per day is a massive time sink. It requires you to spend all day in front of the computer writing, formatting your posts, etc. Yes, they are getting paid. But what if they could get paid the same amount of money without doing any of the work themselves?

Or make even more money?

By outsourcing the labor to hungry writers, they would be able to spend their time creating a long-term strategy that would bring in even bigger profits. Negotiate deals with enterprise-level companies, create content for a $500/month paid newsletter, whatever.

The point is that they wouldn't have to just write post after post (which is extremely boring, trust me) and could instead use the time to grow their blog into a business.

So other than taking the task of content creation off their hands, what's in it for them?

All sponsored posts would have a link pointing to the whale's main blog/website/whatever, so they'd still be getting new followers and customers without doing any actual work.

Furthermore, they'd still make money from the posts because a significant portion of the profits would be paid out to them on a weekly basis. No, it's not as much as if they were to just upvote their own post, but keep in mind that this is a completely passive strategy for them.

On top of that, they also make an additional 25% from curating the post as well.

Worth mentioning is that they would establish some good will with the rest of the users on this site for spreading the wealth around a little bit. With this type of business model, they would know that they were responsible for enabling aspiring authors to make a little extra money from contributing content to the platform.

Imagine how grateful these authors would be for the opportunity to 1) reliably get paid actual money for their writing, and 2) get exposure for their brand/business/whatever. That gratitude could turn into potential future business opportunities for people who enjoy working together.

Finally, and perhaps most important, is that Steemit would go from a place where authors can make money maybe possibly if the stars align and they get a @curie upvote, to a place where freelance writers could get reliably get paid in the double-digits to write high quality posts.

None of this "just leave great comments and eventually you'll get discovered!" nonsense.

Problem #3, solved.

The best talent money can buy

While I will admit that I've noticed a slight improvement in the quality of posts on the Trending page in the past few weeks, I think it's safe to say that overall this place could use a higher volume of better content.

Go on Huffpost, CNN, TheOnion, Buzzfeed or any other major internet publication. Even if the topics aren't interesting to you, you'll notice that the articles have a certain level of quality. No spelling mistakes, no grammar issues, no 3 sentence articles. Everything is formatted and looks professional.

Is it because these people are intrinsically motivated to create amazing pieces of literature that will stand the test of time?

No. It's because they're being financially compensated (with enough money for it to be worth their time) to write something.

And not only that, there is an editor running the magazine who reads every single post, suggests minor changes, and puts the finishing touches on all articles before they hit the internet.

Do you think this editor works for free? Does he do it because he "cares about the future of the online magazine?"

Again - no.

He does it because he has to pay rent and buy food. If he stopped getting paid, he would stop doing it.

The fact that he gets paid ensures a high level of quality. Both the writers and editors know that if they let the quality slip, they'll be replaced by the thousands of other writers and editors who are eager to prove themselves to the owner of the publication.

As far as I know, there's nothing like this on Steemit yet. Either you pay for upvotes or you're a whale and just upvote your own shit. Quality doesn't matter. The only people who put effort into their posts do so out of a sense of pride, because they don't want something to reflect poorly on them that will be saved in the STEEM blockchain forever.

But when you create a for-profit publication that hires writers to deliver quality articles, those writers have a compelling reason to keep their standards high. If they don't, they'll be replaced.

Currently, there is no incentive to even spellcheck and format your posts. What's the point? Even if you do, there's no guarantee that @curie or whoever will give you an upvote.

And even if they do, are they going to do it for every single one of your posts? Of course not. They want to seem fair and spread the love.

That's understandable. But you're not going to get anyone who quits their job to write full time on Steemit if they have to depend on the generosity of a high SP account acting as a non-profit entity.

Problem #4 & #5, solved.

Ultra Birdkiller 5000

The current problem with Steemit is that the major SP holders have no reason to waste their time curating posts or otherwise spreading out the reward pool.

Even if all upvote bots disappeared tomorrow, that's not going to change the fact that these accounts have virtually no interaction with the bottom 95% of the community.

A model like kills a lot of birds with one stone.

  1. Whales make money without doing anything
  2. The reward pool gets a more even distribution
  3. Minnows make money and get exposure for their content
  4. Steemit becomes a place where you can make reliable money from day 1
  5. Post quality improves as the platform shifts to a marketplace that connects freelancers to businesses

We already have the writers. I will do the editing myself. I'll even handle all the off-site promotion.

All I need is a few whales who want to get involved.

What do you think about my master plan?

Let me know in a comment!


If you're a whale and you want to learn more, email me at [email protected] or msg me on Discord at yallapapi#1970.


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Good points made, but it goes deeper then what’s presented.

I no longer get upset with anyone taking advantage of the systems put in place. I get upset with devs not listening to the users of their platform.

On my post I happily upvote anyone who leave solid comments and further conversations, but I’m not either.

I no longer get upset with anyone taking advantage of the systems put in place. I get upset with devs not listening to the users of their platform.

The solution I provided above does not depend on the devs to be implemented. That is the problem with this place, that everyone expects "the devs" to do something. Who are these devs anyway? I've never seen any of them post anything. I've never seen anyone say, "Hi guys, I'm a Steemit dev and I just wanted to give you a quick update on what we're working on."

Where is Ned? I checked his profile and the guy hasn't made a post or a comment in months. The CEO of this company is nowhere to be found? I get it, maybe the guy is busy. But who cares? The point is that you should not depend on Ned, Fred, Jed or whoever the fuck to fix your platform when it's built on a blockchain.

You can create a solution from your own creativity, like I am trying to do with my idea. Stop looking for other people to solve your problems and try to do something on your own.

Lmfao, you do realize that you are one in a mass pool of users. I’m not begging for anyone to fix anything, but it is clear that a community effort ain’t fixing shit.

Leave it as it is for all I care, just realize your whining will go nowhere with out an official implementation.

"ain't fixing shit" until some day it does fix it. Look at Condenser which got basically overtaken by the busy.org interface. As far as I know the busy.org app is built "decentralized" from Steemit Inc. and Ned

I tend to be optimistic and keep faith that the system can gather enough forces to "fix itself" in a decentralized way

Lmfao, you do realize that you are one in a mass pool of users. I’m not begging for anyone to fix anything, but it is clear that a community effort ain’t fixing shit.

Until now, the “community effort” has been lead by people like @berniesanders and @grumpycat who only look to punish people. There is very little construction going on there. They make a post talking shit and then drop the hammer. People get riled up and their energy is not taken advantage of. Because they have no SP, not much you can do with them anyway.

My solution was clear and concise. Not whining at all. It is a plan that will work if executed and does not depend on anyone other than me, a single high SP account and participating writers to get it going. We don’t need Ned or deva to do complicated math and have team meetings to make it work.

Read the comments. People “get” the idea. I think I just need to try and reach out to some accounts individually.

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I'm with you. Maybe even @ngc / @nextgencrypto / @thecyclist / @berniesanders could be interested in trying a more constructive approach ? Who knows ?

Am with you all the way bro. Your solutions are realistic and indeed the vaccine to Steemits disease. @crypto2crypto you haven't proffered any solution(s) yet. So it will be better if your criticism is a little suggestive or constructive. @yallapapi its a privilege to have you as a High Sp account who is concerned about creating a lasting solution to Steemits' Problem.

I mean thanks but I am definitely not a high SP account. I’m talking 100k+ when I use that term.

Your post are too good so therefor i am going to following you right now.

If anyone joins steemit GitHub and provide decent pull-request, they will accept it.

I hope you are right

^^^^^THIS.^^^^^

THIS @yallapapi COMMENT, RIGHT UP HERE.

A BAZILLION TIMES -THIS-

WE NEED A SOLUTION THAT DOES -NOT- DEPEND ON THE DEVS TO "FIX" THIS PLATFORM. FOR THEM TO "MAKE IT WORK" FOR US.

WE NEED A SOLUTION THAT -WE- CAN IMPLEMENT AND -WE- CAN MAKE IT WORK.

I scratched my head to make an intelligent comment here and all I could come up with was "I fully agree". What else can I add to make it sound more intelligent ? :-)

hey ,great JOB

I read quickly but would you say that you propose is a kind of "internal magazine" inside the Steemit eco-system ? The whale would be like to owner of the magazine and he would pay (by voting) the "journalists" (minnows) that work for the "magazine". And there you add some kind of "magazine - like" structure with an editor that selects what articles make it into a given issue and takes care of the overall level of quality and style and alignement with the prefessed "mission" of the "magazine".

Am I even close ?

How do I as little guy with no experience in creating something like this make a change to the platform??

@yallapapi, i get your point here. The steemit system has been built to sustain itself. I also understand that Creativity and originality is what is meant to be the DNA of the system. But the issue here is, with the growing increase in the influx of new users, the web gets bigger and it becomes very difficult to get noticed. Though:
"Success is a never-giver-up journey" for me.

People who are constantly “upset” with the system aren’t trying hard enough and spend their time whining about others. They need to work on themselves IMO...there are ways.

Are you referring to me with this statement? I am doing plenty.

Definitely not referring to you, talking about those that are minnows and just whine whine whine, steem is 2 years old, people like you and those up top that care are going to make it evolve, the ones at the bottom just have to stay on the grind...it will come together IMO

Yes... isn't this the point... you start at the bottom and you work your way up? If you want to increase your profits you have to increase your efforts? I'm a newbie and I still struggle with understanding how it all works exactly. I still don't understand everything in my wallet. It isn't a new user friendly system... however I have persevered and I am slowing getting there. As you said, as things evolve so will we...

exactly this. I was already thinking as a minnow that what this platform needs are people to come together as a group and get involved in stuff like this.

Can I borrow some SBD so I can spend it on BOTS so I can get my post trending like these guys do? Thanks the only reason they got the followers they have & the upvotes they are getting.

I know it’s an uphill battle. But it’s just like real life. Get over it and find a way to succeed.

Look at my wallet. I ain’t got shit right now but for a few weeks and putting in effort i think it’s getting somewhere.

Look at my wallet. I started after you. I cashed out $200 bitcoin took probably a $100 loss on it at the time. I put that into Steemit. Have withdrawn some steem & opened a Bitshares account.
It's now worth $275. So I think I know what I'm doing....

most of what they do wrong in not cashinig in on baits based on current fads

I bet you are stupid in rl

And the one who talks about not putting effort in only has $30.00 in their Steemit account & has been here since October 2017. I made $30 my first month here.

Steemit is an investment, yes one has to be creative in writing, but there is more to that.

In the gaming world people would use the term "Pay to Win" which i think also applies here on Steemit. The people with the most money invested in bots and votes, will win over other people that don't have such funds. You can see a really bad post with 1 picture and 3 lines of text make $100 just because bots were used and a amazing 1500 word post complete with video's and pictures making only $1 without bots because of this.

I am also trying to use some bots just so my posts get seen by people and not get buried right after i posted it. Because i don't have such funds to spend $50 for upvotes or more for a single post, so its harder for people like me. Thats why i think you could consider Steemit Pay to Win ;)

To show you a post i made as a example: https://steemit.com/gaming/@baloothebear/the-best-upcoming-mmorpg-of-2018-is-bless-online

Which is in my personal opinion a decent post, and used about 3 SBD to give it some more attention, and the result is pretty darn bad... I am not saying i deserve $100 for that post, but i do think that it is better then some posts that make way to much for just a picture and 3 lines of text.

Don't get me wrong though, i do like this platform and i will keep trying to add decent quality content to my channel and i think it still great if i get a few SBD out of some of my posts. So iam happy either way, but i do see some sort of problem with the whole upvote system.

This is an anticipating post. I request make post like this soon.

This is a prime example😂🤣🤣

What you say is absolutely true, the profit of the writers who contribute quality is not equal to the content that is currently being published, there is undoubtedly an imbalance in Steemit that we have to solve, you have some good ideas but how to ensure that all this is applied, how would you make the whales access the solutions you are giving?

It is absolutely true that the financial incentive in most cases raises the quality of the work.

The truth is very interesting and sustainable what you say, and don't forget the Hispanic community there is a lot of quality there, even many communities are fighting the battle against this problem that you have clearly raised in this article.

Hopefully you can implement what you propose, that would improve Steemit a lot, because when you see the cracks in a site you have to repair or rebuild and this platform has a lot of potential just need to correct.

@crypto2crypto, Your stance here is great:

I happily upvote anyone who leave solid comments and further conversations...

But how many users with an advantaged vote value and reputation would do what you are doing in a way to have a significant effect on the ever-increasing population of this platform?

The system here has given power to the people. Its left for the "advantaged" users to have a heart of gold as you do.

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Look at all those whales lining up to put this into motion. hahaha...

GL

Short of discovering the cure to human greed at a world-wide scale, if this isn't solved at the code side it won't be solved. It's really that simple.

After a quick glance over some of the comments, I'm convinced that @jaki01 suggested the most feasible solution in @scipio 's "UserAuthority" (link), or perhaps a similar algorithm that makes it difficult (ideally, impossible) to game.

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Hmmm... What if we could demotivate whales to behave badly from technical side?

Just quick brainstorm ideas

  • 1-2 full upvotes per day. Less junk content from whales.
  • More complicated voting power reduction. E.g. it reduces more quickly if you upvote one single account over and over again. If you full upvote joe and alice you are at 96% VP, but of you upvote joe 2 times then at 94% VP.
  • Slightly non-linear reward curve. Like x^(1-small growing function from SP) and the same for number of upvotes. So whale can't vote for himself with full power and also can't divide his power among many accounts BUT can divide his vote among many minnows.

Just an analyst in thread )

P.S. Dolphin self-upvote for visibility.

What is we waste time thinking of a solution that none of us can implement because it relies on the developers of this platform?

Yeah, how about no. Do you think I made this post just to give my fingers a workout?

This place is not going to change unless we are able to better utilize the SP in whale accounts that is sitting and doing nothing, or just printing money for a few select users. Ned is not going to change anything. No dev is going to release an update that is going to all of a sudden make everything better.

I'm sick of seeing suggestions like this. Just a bunch of hot air that can never be executed. My ideas can be implemented by people who are not employed by Steemit Inc.

Forget about technical changes.

You got a 24.96% Upvote and Resteem from @ebargains, as well as upvotes from our curation trail followers!

If you are looking to earn a passive no hassle return on your Steem Power, delegate your SP to @ebargains by clicking on one of the ready to delegate links:
50SP | 100SP | 250SP | 500SP | 1000SP | 5000SP | Custom Amount

You will earn 80% of the voting service's earnings based on your delegated SP's prorated share of the service's SP pool daily! That is up to 38.5% APR! You can also undelegate at anytime.

We are also a very profitable curation trail leader on https://steemauto.com/. Follow @ebargains today and earn more on curation rewards!

Just a bunch of hot air that can never be executed.

Therefore it's imo best to analyse the situation,

  • implement the changes in a new codebase.
    (no Hard Fork unfortunately, because then the 'abusive people' still get to take their massive amount of SP with them. )
  • get a pool of trustworthy witnesses/users
  • start a new blockchain from the ground up.

Great. You’re hired. Let me know when it’s done. We’ll call it YallaPapiIt

So I've permission to use your name then?
Be careful what you wish for.

You have permission to use my name for my platform that you are designing for me. Yes.

Okay, we just need to organize top influencers on the platform who don't want to be organized to solve just any problem in the place. That's more feasible than you know... write a pull request on GitHub.

Write a pull request that needs to travel up the food chain and be approved. I would say it is more feasible to do it my way. Cloning the source and making a new coin would even be more feasible.

I formulated some similar ideas to make self-voting, circle-voting and spamming less attractive by ...

  • ... thinking about a reward curve which started as n^2 / exponential (thus flat), and then later changed into linear which would work against self-voting as well as excessive rewards.
    @clayop had a similar idea.
  • ... implementing diminishing returns when upvoting the same accounts (including own ones) again and again.
  • ... reintroducing the restriction to four (or less) full paid posts per day (from some hard forks ago) which was very reasonable.

When I wrote these articles some time ago I really had hoped that more witnesses would have joined the discussion!

Thanks - you made a great overview of the problem startin from year ago.

I did not what does it mean until i saw your reply as i am new on steemit :) thanks.

SOLID idea when it comes to if you vote the same account again and again your voting power drops more quickly

I like the idea of limiting votes, but perhaps spreading the weight between votes could be better.

1 vote = 100% weight, 2 votes = 50% each, 3 votes 33.334% each, etc.

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Good points. Hopefully we can solve those problems.

It has some issues. But I can totally see it working.

The way I see it is more like a closed group. Not like the @artzone approach, more like the @sndbox and @make-a-whale approach. Only the very best (MINNOWS) content producers can be here, and we combine that with a trail.

First, you open subscriptions for minnows to get a membership. Candidates should comply some requirements (A good reputation, a certain number of posts, etc.), then they are asked to create a special post for participating (Or perform a certain task) and then a group of highly respected steemians will select a few among them.

These few will be allowed to post once a day, and all their posts will be upvoted (Via trail) by participant whales and dolphins who delegate to the main account. A minimum payment is guaranteed.

An editor (or team) will be evaluating these posts (There won't be a lot of participants, so this task won't be hard) just to check everything is fine (It should because these minnows are the very best we could find).

In the rare case something goes wrong (Anything), then the curation team can decide NOT TO GIVE the rewards to this minnow, and distribute her/his share of rewards among the other minnows (Or whales). Then, kicked him out of the group.

There would be a renovation (Or ampliation) of the group of minnows every couple of months or so. How big or small this group can be, it depends on the delegation.

The other way to do it is to ask all minnows who would like to be considered for the upvote, to post using a certain tag, and then have a team of people dedicated to select the best posts. But there would be A LOT of posts everyday to evaluate.

The way I see it is more like a closed group. Not like the @artzone approach, more like the @sndbox and @make-a-whale approach. Only the very best (MINNOWS) content producers can be here, and we combine that with a trail.

Yes.

First, you open subscriptions for minnows to get a membership. Candidates should comply some requirements (A good reputation, a certain number of posts, etc.), then they are asked to create a special post for participating (Or perform a certain task) and then a group of highly respected steemians will select a few among them.

Yes.

An editor (or team) will be evaluating these posts (There won't be a lot of participants, so this task won't be hard) just to check everything is fine (It should because these minnows are the very best we could find).

Yes. All posts are manually reviewed and edited. Only posts from whitelisted authors are accepted.

How big or small this group can be, it depends on the delegation.

I had 70 posts/week on the account in mind when I wrote this.

The other way to do it is to ask all minnows who would like to be considered for the upvote, to post using a certain tag, and then have a team of people dedicated to select the best posts. But there would be A LOT of posts everyday to evaluate.

No.

But other than that you nailed it.

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Fully agree. Steem is ruined by the current rules. Something needs to be done to resolve these issues. Adding a decay factor for upvoting, for example, so you can not always upvote your friends or your own.

👋

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the base of the pyramid is pretty weak while the height is pretty high, in that case the pyramid will lost footing and will collapse, the same what will happen in steemit if we can't figure out how to distribute the reward fairly because the ordinary users are the one will save the swinging pyramid. If we achieved and keep the exponential numbers of users that what makes the steemit valuable.

Nice pyramid metaphor.

I thought the primary goal was for Steemit to enable the long tail of topics and content. The thought of a small, but signigicant audience of minnows contributing to the value of a post in a specific niche. The reality that we have a few big whale 'gatekeepers' to success feels antithetical to a blog platform made for the people by the people via the blockchain.

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well @yallapapi you make a lot of good points i share the thought of lets make posts that everyone wins big and small, which is why i want to help grow my audience financially maybe today their vote is one cent but feeding them a little everyday these guys will come back and feed you!

Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.056 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.056 SBD from the community!

👍👍👍👍

Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.048 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.048 SBD from the community!

You got a 24.42% Upvote and Resteem from @ebargains, as well as upvotes from our curation trail followers!

If you are looking to earn a passive no hassle return on your Steem Power, delegate your SP to @ebargains by clicking on one of the ready to delegate links:
50SP | 100SP | 250SP | 500SP | 1000SP | 5000SP | Custom Amount

You will earn 80% of the voting service's earnings based on your delegated SP's prorated share of the service's SP pool daily! That is up to 38.5% APR! You can also undelegate at anytime.

We are also a very profitable curation trail leader on https://steemauto.com/. Follow @ebargains today and earn more on curation rewards!

Congratulations! Your submission earned you 0.037 SBD from this bounty. You have received 0.000 SBD from the creator of the bounty and 0.037 SBD from the community!

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